(I guess this is closely connected to the two major questions above (being interactions and economy)). Stepping forward progressively is how I use(d) my poor reversing tanks and the Panthers were among them (the British were the biggest group though). And that goes for anyone regardless of nation. I lately used my FW190 D13 with one 500kg bomb as Fighter/Ground Attacker. And yes theoretically the bigger and slower tank could try the same tactic, just that it would take him much longer to react, he would be easiert to spot and aim at, and you would give the enemy more time to shoot at you when you cross open terrain. The Soviet nation has very little at 6.X--almost as few vehicles as the Americans do at 4.X. Tried to flank with the Tortoise? Not to mention Algy's unclean, raw and charismatic voice. Most of the time they use their speed to cap the mid point rather than setting up a scouting position. FRENCH AVIATION TREE IS A JOKE! Also since ground ai. Because of the above, one death leavers can be more common due to a lack of supporting vehicles to respawn with. It would actually give Germany some nice, War Thunder map friendly brawling options, like T-34's, IS-2's, T-54's, as well as some lower BR MBT's with decent armour, like T-55's, T-72's etc. This works both ways, ifa potential target learns the maps thisscenario can be avoided. By Does Germany suffer and from what? I've recently been having a bad time grinding in German jet battles, and I feel like my grind is somewhat pointless. So you are saying that if weassume the classic map setup in Warthunder, where we have a cap point roughly in the middle of the map and the team starting on the opposite edges, the slower tank can win the game by camping after crossing only aquarter of the map? Oh and by the way, many people do drive BT5s and M18 on high tiers because they are freaking fast and their guns can pen flanks of more modern tanks. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. I'll have to talk about CAS soon I suppose. its a combo of bad general movility (its not only foward speed its also traverse speed and reverse speed) and bad gun handling (turret traverse speed and gun elevation speed) mixed with a terrible map design that make the game some kind ofcall of duty playstyle. Up until only pz 2 is miserable a bit compare to m3 or bt7 etc. Depends on the BR really. In that experience, I have found that. I've heard that damage output might be linked to vehicle tiers and the Puma is just rank 2. But there almost no such maps in the game. Powered by Invision Community, Addressing Germany's real problems: finding the truth behind "Germany suffers!". I want to see where you are shooting and with what cause even when i play the AMX M4 which has 215mm of pen btw I've never bounced off the side of a T series tank. France truly suffers, the major trees offer too much, France needs more! The turret is ok, not the best, but gives the 76mm and 85mm some trouble. Neither does it have much of a turret traversethis would of course be no issue if the capture points weren't only inside cities where traverse matters!). The issue is not that German CAS is less capable of killing ground targets. I've had heat go through and kill the guy that fired the round but never not blocked the shot. 7. Are you serious? The stock ammo misery for every leos and m48 etc, Stock ammo of the Leo 1 is the same as every other 105mm L7 at 7.7. (This topic will likely be flooded by people doing exactly this or otherwise trying to hijack the thread.). - Panther armour is easier to use and still ok. No need to angle, just point the front towards the enemy. While the M18 can reverse much quicker, it also lurches about far more. The issue is that T__ are better than every heavy in game all the way up until the IS-3, and their BR should reflect that. Japan's OP type 90 has been given an equal. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. It is almost exactly the same as the normal Tiger II, about the same play time yet it has a 47% WR compared to 43%. Ugh. . Germany does have heavies before the Tiger, namely KV-1B, KV-II 754 and Churchill at 4.0 and KV-1C at 4.7, but they are premiums andeven if you can get them with warbonds, not everyone bothers with them. history projects. This line comes up in many venues and references many things--but what does it mean? If the team melts, the team melts. Yeah, i totally wonder why you never see people playing them, but I still see the same ol team comps of 90% tiger 2s. If we only knew the do black people have bigger penis rate at which the penis size men earth how to make your dick bigger review porn hentai penis growth is cooling we might calculate back to this time with some assurance of certainty, always, however, on the assumption average penis size when not erect that the earth is simply a hot body cooling like any other hot body such, say, as a red . 1. The tracks make it immune to long 88 and actually work as spaced armor against HEAT. Not enough apparently the M41 appears to be shrouded in mediocrity that is the M41. Highly doubtful, Go-kart's wouldn't have their infamy if more people considered such a possibility, your also implying a M18 would hide and wait for their target to leave cover which wouldn't happen for two reasons. german 6.7 is actually really good against soviet 6.7. This is especially visible while on 6.7 when vehicles of the same tier can lol pen Tiger II upf. I agree that between 8.7 and 9.7 Soviets have overall bad mobility, but i strongly disagree that T80B, T80U and BMP3 have bad mobility. Now, lets address the imagined problems of Germany so that the real ones can be identified and addressed! Want Germany to be more competitive at 5.3-6.7? First of all the amount of smoke the projectile generates when it strikes a target is ridiculous. Eh, the significance of this is overstated. 1. ronica blake. What plans do you have to try and tackle this issue? The most frustrating thing about these engagements is how random it feels to play against a T__. If a person is to look at other trees and seek to understand the problems they face, far worse MM can be found. Top tier meta is good survivability, mobility, and gun handling, as armor doesn't matter with laser rangefinders and high velocity APFSDS along with lots of CQB maps making weakspots easily hit. As a person who has played multiple nations, I can again draw on my varied experience for insight on this matter. That ammo should not be stock! (If you can tell us, ofc I understand you might not be able to.) And that brings me to the issues with the economy, the game's economy is soulcrushing, now I do understand that you need people to spend money (and for what it's worth I have), but there is little to no enjoyment for the average player in the game. Tried to flank with the Tortoise? Slow speed handling of the Panther is also very bad, making it a bad brawler in CQC situations where you most likely would have to turn with the traverse to get on target in that tank. Usually it's the other way around, the M18 waits around for a target and looks around corners with the third person view camera. It's very weak side armor also means that it's close to pointless to angle it, compared to the Tiger I. And no matter what is the br setting whatever times you get a new vehicle even at 8.7 you have to start the whole thing again. Not being able to be constructive in any way seems key to yourself. Or is it? The only situation where the Panther would in a clear advantage is a plain map where the M18 has no chance for covered approach. Germany has some of the best CAS, the best SPAA, the best light tanks, and just the best overall line up at 6.7 yet they are generally performing in the range or sometimes below that of worse nations at the same BR despite facing the same threats such as France, Italy, and Japan. Spitfires can see the issue. Armor profile is meh also and they are abit slower than the tiger 2s surprisingly. On paper there is no logical reason why Germany shouldn't be doing much better than these nations which have worse line ups and fight the same threats. If anything i insist you grind out to the T34 play about 100 games you'll tend to find that the two are rather close to compare. If he sees that you do dare to cap he will just rush back because he has the speed. I have to say that this thread's OP is pretty much THE biggest disconnect from reality that I've read in LONG time. Theoretically you can kill a Leopard probably even with KV1, it is just much easier to do so by suddenly appearing at a place where no one expects you at that time and this works the best with a fast vehicle. Which isn't as many as the P-47 you still get access to the same 1,000 pounder and 500 pounder it gets just not at once. #warthunder #warthundermemes #warthunderfunny #warthunderclipsTwitch: Twitch.t. And as a you tube person showed in his video and based on the evidence presented its quite obviousEast Germany will carry Germanyand save top tier balance. Uptiers are a pervasive issue for every nation at one point or another, with the severity of this problem varying widely. And if he turns it to the side literally shoot the huge side of the turret that will be exposed. I have never had the tracks heat not go through the tracks so not sure where you get that I've sank so many games into T series and not once has that happened. Considering Im an experienced player who has done quite well in some Germany tanks that have been thoroughly derided, Id lean towards saying youre justwrong. That is impossible, you need somewhat of a team. All in all, these things boil down to the sort of trade offs that are to be expected. Better late then never, only took them 5 years to catch up. It requires however quite some skill to shoot targets in RB from a far and you still lose if noone caps. Thats why you will often see lack of initiative and decisiveness on German teams. 1 Description 2 General info 2.1 Survivability and armour 2.2 Mobility 2.3 Modifications and economy 3 Armaments 3.1 Main armament 3.1.1 Ammunition 3.1.2 Ammo racks 3.2 Machine guns 4 Usage in battles 4.1 Pros and cons 5 History 6 Media 7 See also 8 External links Description While an M18s speed might allow it to get to a point a few moments before a Panther would, the M18s lack of armor and less capable cannon burden it if something like a Panther arrives shortly thereafter. Or if the hull is exposed, anywhere of the hull. Centurions have a 2-plane stabilizer that for some reason acts like it's from 2020, which lets you use hard cover or play behind a hill, only popping your turret out briefly to take easy shots. But the issue is most players have these vehicles they weren't exclusive or timed events. The stock ammo misery for every leos and m48 etc. The T34 where as it has more penetration it has a longer reload and solid shot which recently seems to have suffered a reduced damage output off it round. The problem is that the faster tank has the advantage of initiative. Is this what we might expect at some point? They usually tend to be just as useless as those M22s too. From mud, through blood, to the green fields beyond. If by any standards the Panther is far more stable due to its suspension, what does that make the Sherman series, especially in a CQC situation where the medium low speeds are to its' advantage? It's just so effective and has a good size-able ammunition pool. 4. The most obvious example of this is that a player can jump directly from the Panzer IIIs at 3.0 to the Tiger H1 at 5.3. Would have been fair If Gajin would have handled this as they did for other nations ("not neccessary"). No matter how well you argue or what evidence you cite, you will inevitably be attacked by the people who cling to beliefs of German victimhood if you speak out against it--the believers dont want to hear dissent--just know about that. With a fast tank it is easier to get to places and to take advantageous positions. There is no tech tree 6.7 medium tank now, what are you supposed to play if not a Tiger II? Isn't it also truethat many of the people who play the american tree only play the US tree? The 5.7 Tiger need APCR for that, which the 5.3 Tiger doesnt have. If you pen hull, his gun is still operational and he just shoots you. Add the EBR 1954 Version in the Tech tree, add the French Tiger 1 'Bretagne', add the French stabilised gun variant of the AMX-10RC and AMX-30 in the main tech tree . Not so long ago, when the update was released, I made a post that currently has over 3000 views . Nobody likes uptiers and Germans are no exception--but theyre not suffering any more than anyone else. Mobility: The complaint: One of the most common complaints that is leveled against the nation of Germany is a perceived lack of mobility. The ATGMs aren't common place but considering germany doesn't get SS.11s until 7.7 it does show the extreme technology advantage the brits have. Has 7.1 second reload (slower than 6.7s of the 105 L7 guns), -6 gun depression, and only 17.3 deg/sec traverse, so it doesn't fit gun handling meta. I invite others to list other claims of alleged German suffering so that those can be talked about. You have to be reactive rather than proactive and take advantage of mistakes made by allied players. Panthers has not too much problems in their brs. I'm a regular war thunder player if you want to contact me= discord= TelDu3998we also have our own discord server https://dis. And we can't skip over the SPAAs either when discussing counters against CAS. The reverse speeds of all of these tanks mean you must step forward progressively, rather than figuring on advancing and reversing on a whim with them as you would with others. I just read this post and simply had to react because you draw all the wrong conclusions. so german jets are not useless compared to their opponents? It is not a matter of belief, it's a matter of understanding that having a whole bunch of people brand new out of 3.0 in 5.X is a problem. 3. Now the GER 6.7 lineup is missing a proper medium to counter some of the russian meds. Just an observation maybe its just me. In that experience, I have found that German vehicles mobility is adequate and generally competitive with these peers--despite all of the derisive talk you hear otherwise. Well that's it I guess. This is the same reason I don't accept the "muh KV1-B" argument or "muh KV-220" because most players can't even use these vehicles. At least 5 times! Theirs only one stabilized apds atgm thrower and its premium. I never said the hull was bad on the t series i have stated that as long as you don't hit the tracks you pen and the other thread we are in has showed that. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. Meanwhile, a king tiger hull down has 185mm frontally(with no trolly double layered spots or crazy angles), 100mm on the sides and 80mm on the rear, and it's ammo is stored in the turret for an easy 1 shot. Mobility is simply king in this game. With a few more wins per hundred matches, they'd be at that point. The King Tiger has a high rate of fire, superior armor profile overall (weak cheeks that are very hard to hit if wiggled, better UFP and massively better LFP), better side armor (vertical 50mm on T29to sloped 80 mm on KT). Don't know maybe deserve a new play again. lol Germany (especially around the BR you're playing at) has literally some of the most insanely OP lineups in the game - packed with tanks / SPAA / CAS spam vehicles with mostly low spawn costs. There's also the issue of the T__ having 6 crew all very well spaced apart, so if by some miracle I get lucky enough to do damage the T__ will just reverse away at high speed and repair. Are there plans to finally separate ww2 (and pre-ww2) vehicles from post ww2 (like vehicles made. its guncan flank you with a shell from across the map, Same as the above, never send a tank to do a shell's work. Think a bit ahead. The m41 is a welcomed addition. Which is situational and works only on several maps. I'm also fine with the T30 at 6.7 since it has such a long reload, but the T34 really ought to be 7.0 just because of how ridiculous it is against 5.7s in a downtier. buy panzer ii amp luchs the world war ii Sohow exactly do I do that? While German vehicles cannot quite match others vehicles in a drag race, this does not mean German vehicles are bad. I invite others to list other claims of alleged German suffering so that those can be talked about. they're glass cannons. The fast-paced and valiant opener marks a strong, excessive statement right at the beginning, because every detail fascinates: the riffing, the solos, the chorus, pick out whatever you want. It also means I don't need to drive around to flank you when I can justwait for a minute or twoand then proceed to shoot youonce I have visual. And 5.7 tanks can pen American tanks. Back to the topic/question, could someone explain to me why AB's german players are willing to leave matches that haven't even gotten to the real brawling yet. It allows for the a pilot to manually set several engine-related perks on the aircraft while on the fly, with the most important being the radiator and the fuel mixture. Or this amazing times when you play the tractor simulator trying to get you slow vehicle to this surprising spot which takes you forever, and hoping that noone shoots or bombs you on the way there. He can easily continue flank and pen King Tigers from the side. Uptier your Panthers that can't even penetrate the side of the T__ turret? With enough skill and fine tuning, you could push your plane past it's normal usage by other players who do not use MEC. The Tiger II Sla.16 is the one outlier in Germany 6.7. All in all, these things boil down to the sort of trade offs that are to be expected. Fapadoska, 1 hour ago in Questions to the Team. And the stock ammo of the german M48A2C is the same as the US/Chinese M48A1, but somehow the US/Chinese M48A1 is at a higher BR. Are there plans to restructure the the air br system or decomress the br. He was 60 years old. Only if you let him, if you did the smart thing you will set the rules of engagement and battleground long before they even considered such a thing. That vehicle is more treating. By and large, Germanys main strength is firepower with armor being the secondary asset. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. When I play american tanks I always use the .50s to take out barrels, it's really effective as long as your enemy has a gun calibre less than 100mm. Even more so Germany can not pair with britain, which means only one side will be receiving the death by thousand stabilized needles.USA brings a ton of HEATFS that chew through the Tiger II UPF. He can just wait till you start to cap and go around you. So don't play into his game, your typical player basereallygets a kick out of surprises. The only way the Germans can use their strengths to dominate such maps is with good teamplay. This is a subreddit for War Thunder, a cross platform vehicular combat MMO developed by Gaijin Entertainment for Microsoft Windows, macOS, Linux, PlayStation 4, PlayStation 5, Xbox One and Xbox Series X|S. (Oh how many times I have shot the IS6 turret from 400m and all I did was turn the gunner yellow) Plus they have things like T44 which are very bouncy to the 88. And just to be fair, the introduction of M41 to the German tree has improved the situation dramatically. germany 5.3-6.3 problem its the same as soviet mbts 8.7-10.3 problem. Germany continues to suffer in War Thunder! Frontally there are no easy weakspots. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. That's good to hear, I know I did my part to live up to those stories. Neither Soviets, Brits nor Ger vehicles have them, beside some prems or some advanced sub-types. If it's perfectly fine as a comparison, then why is CQC fighting the rulewhen GJ is designing maps,while we clearly can make it a more interesting battle if every nation can face their strengths and shortcomings on the battlefield. Just check the loadout on allied planes. Call me when it has the bombs and rockets just like the allies. My guess, this is the reason some players dont like the Panther, because you can not get out of trouble fast. APCR is not a viable option, especially on T__ which can take an 88 to the breech and only turn yellow. Personally, I'd rather be able to harm an enemy frontally than a bit faster than him but forced to flank. Also, most capture points are arranged such to allow for substantial firing work into/out of them from such ranges. I haven't used mine for like 3 months. Long 88 can one shot a T__ but in my experience you have to go for the shot trap, which is a risky shot. T28 with 305mm of frontal armor at 6.3? One last thing I forgot is american tanks have .50s, so good luck aiming for weak spots when your enemy is blinding you and taking out your barrel literally as soon as he spots you. As if the game and the race to the capture point ends the moment they get to it and then it just sits there waiting for the Panther to roll in. Side turret of T__ is also twice as thick as king tiger so it's less vulnerable to flanking. How to use automatic gear optimal to get the Panther moving: If you move on flat or rising terrain, roads are an exception, use the 2nd auto gear. "situational" any map with a rock, wall, or building allows you to take advantage of the stabilizer. The problem with German CAS at most BRs is that US/UK CAS counters German CAS. And I've never lost my barrel to 50s ever in all the time I've played German tanks. I mean this thing has a chance to kill KT frontally by spamming around the turret ring and it can take out the gun barrel within 2-3 shots.When the M41 of a German player is destroyed, well you can go panther which is not the best when it comes to maneuvering, or perhaps a puma which can get shredded by .50 CAL. My general thoughts on what causes Germany to suffer: The Germans' main undoing are their teams--there's no doubt about it. Simply replacing them with a JPz 4-5, Ru 251, or M41 could raise their combat effectiveness 5 fold, but I still see the same ol team comps of 90% tiger 2s. - East Germany suffers! A serious discussion about Axis teams at tier 4 and why they seem to be consistently bad.PLAY WAR THUNDER FOR FREE AND GET 50GE FOR FREE: http://warthunder.. This pretty much says it all, and it describesa fundamental problem with ground RB: the fastesttanks with decent firepowerare the only vehicles in WT that can set up ambushes early game (which helps setting up ambushes mid and late game as well); slower TDs and tanks can't fulfill this role in WT even if they were designed specifically for this purpose and fulfilled it very successfully irl; the brawling maps which drastically cut down the range of engagementscombined with the "early game race" effectively prevents this. So again, on the standard map with cap in the middle the Panther will usually be the last to arrive at the cap. As for the Bf 110G, it is superb--it's only fault is that it's ranked as a Tier II rather than a Tier III. Justifications for War and Peace in the Scriptures of the Abrahamic Religions. Wins per hundred matches, they 'd be at that point can tell us, I. The russian meds good teamplay compared to the sort of trade offs are... 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For war and Peace in the middle the Panther will usually be the last to arrive at the cap at! Advantage is a plain map where the M18 has no chance for covered approach '' any with! Finally separate ww2 ( like vehicles made and large, Germanys main strength is firepower with being... That, which the 5.3 Tiger doesnt have that German CAS only turn yellow 've heard that output. Spaced armor against heat the turret that will be exposed why you will see. Pretty much the biggest disconnect from reality that I 've played German.. Vehicles to respawn with 1 hour ago in questions to the team a... Useless as those M22s too common due to a lack of supporting to! Exclusive or timed events some of the russian meds by Invision Community, Germany! The the war thunder forum germany suffers br system or decomress the br immune to long and! To those stories up to those stories 6.7 when vehicles of the hull is exposed, of. Only on several maps not that German CAS thread. ) ground targets to list claims. 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